We used to have skill in games...

[Thaldarin]

[Siege]

Used to have eploits in games!

But seriousally bhopping in dm or arena games was great, when you add class based gameplay then it is just stupid, (assuming the class's have differnt speeds)

As for how it has evolved , things like rocket jumping nade jumping etc have been around for ages and in the apropriate games are not going anywhere any time soon, infact its nice that designers are haveing to be inventive on ways to make movement more intresting rather than depending on an old physics fuckup. I think one look at tribes will make most of his argument wrong also as they have got the best of both there is hopping there is skiing there is jumppacks any class can potentially go fucking stupid speed but it is ALOT easier to attain with a class that is built for speed, so it is easy to do hard to master , better than the origional bhop where it was "go 9999999999mph" vs "can straife jump a wee bit and go faster than walking" that was bad D:!.

[Kop]

u shoulda played comp tfc siege, might change ur mind then as that was great and fast and more fun

[Thaldarin]

NS1 and Tribes are beautiful examples of how bunnyhopping in an unintentional way worked well with feature based movement.

Remember, since 2004, bunnyhopping was no longer an exploit. As it was hardcoded in to iDTech for D3 and Half-Life 2 as an option, at default set to off. Since 2004, we've had all the shit the author describes, low-depth movement based gaming such as CoD etc.

TF2 tried to get a balance, which was good... until they added their shit trap of money making in to the game... GET HATS AND WEAPONS AND OOOH YOU CAN FIND THEM TOO TO FUCK UP YOUR EXPERIENCE! Valve...

[Siege]

u shoulda played comp tfc siege, might change ur mind then as that was great and fast and more fun

I did long before you crawled onto the sceene! Back then it was all about teh skillz! ;D
Evryone fapped over DW and BC etc.
But in reality the speed etc was atainable without resorting teh bunny hopping. there were nades, rockets concs pipes etc.

All bunny hopping did was detract away from the modes of speed atainment i mentioned and thus i win!

[Kop]

nah, the real skill came when ppl could bhop and conc etc and do stupidly skillful fast moves to flag and back etc

[Nagash]

nah, the skill in speed movement in TFC mainly came from being able to do a combo of the two at once, as the bhop motion would allow more control in the air while doing a conc jump or rjump etc, but also then you could get more speed and movement from being able to hit ramps correctly to do a ramp jump, and then hitting the very top of the ramp to gain an fast extra jump. Doing a bhop or conc alone was considerably slower in comparasion. Comp play was all about speed as well, you didn't need tactics in the game, just faster getting around the map would win you the game because the slower you are, the easier it is for the defence to shoot you. even the best dmers would have to stand still and block doorways just to prevent this, but if they went to resupply, they might not even know you were there if your fast enough to get past

[Kop]

that was my point nagash, doing both, and by really fast moves i assumed u would realise that meant stuff like ramp slides etc

[Nagash]

i was just elaberating for those not aware how it all worked as opposed to a normal bhop etc